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hradzkaI had two thoughts on hearing of Osama bin Laden's death. The first was: "FUCK YEAH!" My other thought was, "A Navy SEAL killed Osama bin Laden? OMG John Ringo can PREDICT THE FUTURE."
The road to this point was a long one. Reportedly, the US found this place by tracking a courier, whose nickname first came to light in detainee interrogations years ago, and about whom more data slowly amassed until we had his whole name, area of operations, and finally residence, which turned out to be Osama Central. Congrats to President Obama, the operators, and the intelligence folks on a job very well done. I thought the President's speech afterwards could have been better, but it must have been a very strange moment for him; he gave the order for a specific human being to be killed, and a couple of days later, it was done. It was Osama bin Laden, but my impression of Obama is that he's the kind of guy who still would be a little bit freaked out by that. His presentation was always as a transformative figure; he's a natural inspirer, rather than a natural leader, and has never seemed comfortable with wrangling people, unlike Bill Clinton and LBJ, two presidents who *looooved* it. And the one time since his election that Obama says "Do this!" and it happens pretty much perfectly and it's something big that matters and that people will remember him forever for, it's killing a guy. That's got to be a little odd. The way he emphasized himself in his speech was a little odd, too: he insisted on it being a priority, he was briefed, he made the decision. That speech was his "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner; as we all know, the question is what comes after that.
Among all the news and commentary (my favorite being the guy from Lahore who went to Abottabad to get away from it all, who unknowingly became the first person to cover the story when he bitched about helicopters on his Twitter), I've been surprised to see a few commentators making discontented sounds about Americans being publicly happy that Osama bin Laden is dead. Some folks even thought it resembled people celebrating over 9/11 itself. I was reminded of those 9/11 celebrations, too, but purely for contrast: Americans got together to celebrate the death of one guy who deliberately murdered over 3,000 people in a single morning and was sorry it wasn't more. The people who danced in the streets on 9/11 were celebrating the murder of over 3,000 people, and wishing it had been more. There is not so much a moral difference between the two as a moral *gulf.* I haven't forgotten that people danced in the streets over 9/11, and I'm never going to.
The big implications over the next few days are for our relationship with Pakistan. President Obama made lip service to Pakistan's cooperation, but the administration didn't tell Pakistan about the intel or the raid, and that says volumes. What says more: Abbotabad is a bit of a tourist town. It looks like an interesting place to visit; here are some pics from Flickr, if you want to get an idea of what it's like. ABC News originally reported it was 40 miles from Islamabad, but it's actually closer to eighty, so it's about as far from Pakistan's capital as Front Royal, Virginia, is from DC -- a two or three hour drive. It's also a big military town; Pakistan's War College is there. Osama wasn't in the sticks; he was right in the center of everything. As somebody looking at real estate, I'm honestly jealous of his location. There was a bus stop on the corner. There were hospitals and a college nearby. He was in the middle of everything, in a huge house with a giant wall, valued at a million bucks. I don't know if the US will make a stink about this or not (I'm guessing not, though WE DAMN WELL SHOULD), but it's extremely clear that several very big somebodies inside Pakistan knew *exactly* where Osama bin Laden was, and were sitting on that knowledge.
(Incidentally, as long as President Obama is killing people in Pakistan, may I recommend Abdul Qadeer Khan? "House arrest," my ass.)
And on a completely unrelated note: I just watched a promo vid for HAWAII FIVE-O. How the hell do you folks tell McGarrett and Danno apart? Their faces are so similar that the only way I can distinguish them is if it's a long shot, because McGarrett is quite a bit taller.
The road to this point was a long one. Reportedly, the US found this place by tracking a courier, whose nickname first came to light in detainee interrogations years ago, and about whom more data slowly amassed until we had his whole name, area of operations, and finally residence, which turned out to be Osama Central. Congrats to President Obama, the operators, and the intelligence folks on a job very well done. I thought the President's speech afterwards could have been better, but it must have been a very strange moment for him; he gave the order for a specific human being to be killed, and a couple of days later, it was done. It was Osama bin Laden, but my impression of Obama is that he's the kind of guy who still would be a little bit freaked out by that. His presentation was always as a transformative figure; he's a natural inspirer, rather than a natural leader, and has never seemed comfortable with wrangling people, unlike Bill Clinton and LBJ, two presidents who *looooved* it. And the one time since his election that Obama says "Do this!" and it happens pretty much perfectly and it's something big that matters and that people will remember him forever for, it's killing a guy. That's got to be a little odd. The way he emphasized himself in his speech was a little odd, too: he insisted on it being a priority, he was briefed, he made the decision. That speech was his "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner; as we all know, the question is what comes after that.
Among all the news and commentary (my favorite being the guy from Lahore who went to Abottabad to get away from it all, who unknowingly became the first person to cover the story when he bitched about helicopters on his Twitter), I've been surprised to see a few commentators making discontented sounds about Americans being publicly happy that Osama bin Laden is dead. Some folks even thought it resembled people celebrating over 9/11 itself. I was reminded of those 9/11 celebrations, too, but purely for contrast: Americans got together to celebrate the death of one guy who deliberately murdered over 3,000 people in a single morning and was sorry it wasn't more. The people who danced in the streets on 9/11 were celebrating the murder of over 3,000 people, and wishing it had been more. There is not so much a moral difference between the two as a moral *gulf.* I haven't forgotten that people danced in the streets over 9/11, and I'm never going to.
The big implications over the next few days are for our relationship with Pakistan. President Obama made lip service to Pakistan's cooperation, but the administration didn't tell Pakistan about the intel or the raid, and that says volumes. What says more: Abbotabad is a bit of a tourist town. It looks like an interesting place to visit; here are some pics from Flickr, if you want to get an idea of what it's like. ABC News originally reported it was 40 miles from Islamabad, but it's actually closer to eighty, so it's about as far from Pakistan's capital as Front Royal, Virginia, is from DC -- a two or three hour drive. It's also a big military town; Pakistan's War College is there. Osama wasn't in the sticks; he was right in the center of everything. As somebody looking at real estate, I'm honestly jealous of his location. There was a bus stop on the corner. There were hospitals and a college nearby. He was in the middle of everything, in a huge house with a giant wall, valued at a million bucks. I don't know if the US will make a stink about this or not (I'm guessing not, though WE DAMN WELL SHOULD), but it's extremely clear that several very big somebodies inside Pakistan knew *exactly* where Osama bin Laden was, and were sitting on that knowledge.
(Incidentally, as long as President Obama is killing people in Pakistan, may I recommend Abdul Qadeer Khan? "House arrest," my ass.)
And on a completely unrelated note: I just watched a promo vid for HAWAII FIVE-O. How the hell do you folks tell McGarrett and Danno apart? Their faces are so similar that the only way I can distinguish them is if it's a long shot, because McGarrett is quite a bit taller.
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no subject
Date: 2011-05-02 06:02 pm (UTC)I think you're right that Obama is the kind of guy who'd be a little freaked out by giving the order and three days later someone's dead, but the one thing I've always been incredibly impressed by is his calm and poise under pressure. If I had to pick a single word to describe/characterize him, it would be composed; he has the cool, rational decision-making that does not play well on TV but which is exactly what I want in the President of my country. The man gets all the data, lays it out on the table, considers it carefully, and then acts -- and he doesn't second-guess himself afterwards, either. I admire the fuck out of that.
Osama's compound: That turns out not ot be the case
Date: 2011-05-02 06:18 pm (UTC)Today the Pentagon released images and maps of the compound. It is further away, in the middle of some fields. This Google Maps pin matches the DoD images.
I haven't checked to see where the nearest bus stop is.
Talking Points Memo is keeping a running roundup of reports about bin Laden's demise. Worth a look.
Any thoughts about ID of the body or related issues?
Re: Osama's compound: That turns out not ot be the case
Date: 2011-05-08 05:33 pm (UTC)Thanks for correction. It's interesting to note just how many times the story has changed; you'd think I'd have learned from my experience with mass shootings, where invariably the story changes and changes and changes and changes before we finally learn what the hell happened. Turns out this happens with major international news to which initially only a few people were privy to details, and the press promptly forgets that they ever get anything wrong.
ID of the body -- I figure we've got DNA from pretty reliable sources, and we've probably had his medical records from varying institutions for years. Somebody probably drew up a biological profile of the guy as an aid to forensic identification years ago. Forensic professionals in particular workplaces or who just happen to be in proximity to particular workplaces are asked to do that kind of thing from time to time. I think dumping the body was a bad idea, and agree with those who say we should have buried it on Diego Garcia, because the US military owns the island and nobody can turn it into a shrine to jihadi tourism.
The claim that we were treating the body in accordance with Muslim custom was the most ridiculous part of the thing. I'm no expert on Islam, but I work internationally in forensics with a lot of Arab Muslim colleagues whose religiosity runs from the token to the devout, so I've got a certain degree of bullshit detector for what's halal and what's haram. Leaving aside that we're thumping the party line that "Osama bin Laden is not a representative of Islam" thing (so why the hell would anyone care about him getting a Muslim burial?), pretty much the only way we could've been less respectful of the dude's corpse by his lights would've been if we'd wrapped it in pig fat. Autopsies are a very touchy subject in the Arab Muslim world -- I know forensics professionals who have been *shot at* for performing autopsies in cases where it was legally mandated to do so -- and the only time you bury somebody at sea in Islam is pretty much if they die on board a ship. It's really important to bury your own family's dead; people even take them to the ME office themselves, if they have to. The family is really involved. If we wanted to give OBL a proper Muslim burial, we would have taken his family along with his corpse, brought them to Diego Garcia, and let them dig his grave. That's how it's done where he's from. (Usually they'd pick the burying place, but hey, needs must when national security drives.)
no subject
Date: 2011-05-02 06:29 pm (UTC)Jannie
no subject
Date: 2011-05-02 07:45 pm (UTC)Other bloggers have been making remarks about how Obama gave himself too much credit for this. I think, actually, you have your finger on what he was actually thinking: he emphasized his own role in this not to claim credit but to accept responsibility for the decision and the gravity of it. He ordered another specific human being killed. That's not the same thing, morally or ethically speaking, as even ordering troops into combat, and I don't doubt that, at some level, he is more than a little freaked out about it.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-08 05:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-04 02:43 am (UTC)I tell Steve from Danno based on the fact that Danno has a jar-head. Not a nickname for a Marine, but in that his head is literally oddly shaped like a jar.
Glad they killed that murderer
Date: 2011-05-23 05:30 am (UTC)You might not ever forget the people who danced in the street on 9/11, but you DO misunderstand why they did dance.
They were only incidentally celebrating those 3000 people dying.
What they were actually celebrating, from their point of view, was someone struck the giant that until then, had itself struck anyone it decided was an opponent, with impunity.
You are aware enough that the USA has not always been rightous.Supported ( for its own purposes that had nothing at all to do with "What is good for the people of Vietnam" ) through war an absolutely corrupt tyranical government in Vietnam, which resulted in the death of a million civilians. All the civilians killed in Laos, which was a neutral state. The Shah of Iran, a tyrant, supported by the USA. and on and on for you and my entire lives.
You don't need me to tell you of your faults, you know them as well as any of us.
The civilian deaths on 9/11 were just as wrong as the civilian deaths in any of your cold war endeavours.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-27 12:56 am (UTC)